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Supreme Being
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| Okay O-Lugs. Believe what ye wilt. 
Back on topic. I've been meaning to share some thoughts, sure to be scoffed at , about the age of the earth and fossils according to most scientists. Macro-Evolutionists believe that time/energy/chance caused the initial formation of complex living organisms and the eventual evolution of living things on this planet. They mostly claim that time itself is greatly responsible for allowing changes within a species to occur. They believe that as the environment changed over the course of thousands and millions of years, that these species changed or evolved to match the changes in the environment in which they lived or they would die off. They place the age of some fossils and the age of rock into categories of many millions of years for each age and claim that living things that exists today are relatives of all those ancient fossils.
I've stated before that I believe the earth is very ancient. I think there's proof in the Bible to back that up, and disagree strongly with many creationists that believe the earth is only somewhere between 6000 and 10,000 years old. The Bible doesn' reveal how long the earth existed before the "Six days of creation."
The earth was already here and covered in water when God began re-creating the earth itself in Genesis 1:6. Why was it covered in water and for how long?
We're no told. Perhaps the earth had seen other times in its ancient history when it had plenty of life. We shouldn't dismiss outright that there existed living things on earth eons before the creation of Man.
There's one thing of which the Bible speaks that is huge for the creationist to consider. That is, at the creation of man, there was yet no curse on the physical world or in the physical universe. There was no decay and there was no "growing old." When sin came into the human race, God "cursed" the creation, and from that time on, things began to age and die. I believe there were other creations (and people) on this earth prior to the Adamic race, BEFORE the curse. But they did not perish due to slow aging, but probably from rebellion against God, and judgment was swift and sudden. During the pre-Adamic times, there was no deteriation in the universe like we have today. Even at the beginning of the Adamic race after the fall, people lived for many hundreds of years. One man is recorded in scripture to have lived just shy of 1000 years. When scientists carbon-date objects, they are using todays decay rate to calculate the age of the object. This is a huge problem for determining the age of extinct species, whether they are of our 6 days of creation, or pre-Adamic. I believe some of the fossils we find today are not from the 6 days of creation, but from eons before when there was no decay. Even if Macro-Evolutionists discover human-like/ape-like bones allegedly from pre-historic times, this does does not make them relatives of human beings. According to the Bible, heavenly angels look quite like us and yet, we are not related. I also believe that the demonic spirits loose in the world today may be relics of ancient people from ancient times and are in no way related to humans.
Scoff away!
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Supreme Being
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| Lately I've been thinking about some of the admissions of atheists. For example, in that Nova special, some atheistic scientists/philosophers etc, admit that living things can appear to have design. They admit that living things appear to have a purpose. They admit that living things appear to be fine-tuned in such a specific way that it appears an intelligence was behind its existence. Meanwhile, they totaly deny it could possibly be exactly what it appears to be!
Recently Ravi Zacharias has stated what he thinks is an inconsistency in some Atheists reasoning for their denial of God. He mentions how atheists love to point out all the violence and suffering in the world, so how could there be a loving and all-powerful God? Yet at the same time, more and more atheists deny the existence of evil. On one hand they claim that there is no such thing as absolute good or evil in a god-less universe, but then complain about all the evil in the world. Zacharias thinks that they shouldn't use that argument because it is an admission that evil is real. When an atheist claims there is no absolute evil in a godless universe, Zacharias says something like...." So, if I go over to your house and rape your wife and kill your children, then that's no big deal?" He claims he gets a silent expression from the atheist after that. Hmmm.
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Supreme Being
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| Ah, the return of Ravi Zacharias! I was wondering when the "King of Apologetics" (aka "The Master of the Straw Man Argument") would make his entrance...or is it re-entrance? Pardon my deja-vu...
OK, it's obvious to all but the most deluded that Zacharias is a fraud but don't let that stop you from paraphrasing him in all his repulsiveness, ET.
Good and evil (moral law) can indeed exist without a "law giver". Look around, the world (for all its flaws and faults) is actually a pretty moral place. Let me restate: humans do the "right thing" slightly more often than they do the "wrong thing". Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten to where we are now. Now, the fact that this human trait developed over time regardless of what year it was, who was King, what culture was defining the norms, or how "civilized" people were at the time can only mean one thing: humans are moral beings. Raise a child without any religion at all and they will still know right from wrong. I know this because I did it!
As to whether this innate morality is "calibrated" to some absolute moral code is a question best left to philosophers. A fan of ID (like you ET) would point to this as "design" and flog it until it cried out "divinely created!" The rest of us can just be content that our sense of moral judgment happens to be coincident with our intelligence. Primates (and even lower mammals like my dogs) know exactly when they are breaking the rules yet you wouldn't say they have a "soul" would you?
Displace the source of our inner moral judgment off onto some invisible, omniscient super-being and you do ALL of us a huge disservice. I take it as an insult personally whenever I hear a theist (like RZ) use the stupid straw man argument that us atheists are ok with "evil" because we don't believe in it. Recess is over kids, let's get back to class!
"Evil" is entirely subjective to begin with. You can't "believe" in evil any more than you can "believe" in lousy weather. The entire spectrum of morality is constantly in motion and hard to pin down for even a nanosecond. Why is that? Because the driver of morality, intelligence, is constantly going up (or down). And don't get me wrong, smart people can do very bad things (usually in self-interest).
The challenge for the Christian is to recalibrate their innate moral "compass" to that of Jesus. This is, in practice, totally impossible for the average human in the modern setting. But that doesn't mean we should give up on the effort!
So ET, how about you give away what you own, serve the poor, and live a life free from EVERYTHING except love. Then we'll talk about morals.
Deal?
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Supreme Being
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| Krispy Kirk (10/7/2009)
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OK, it's obvious to all but the most deluded that Zacharias is a fraud but don't let that stop you from paraphrasing him in all his repulsiveness, ET.
As to whether this innate morality is "calibrated" to some absolute moral code is a question best left to philosophers. A fan of ID (like you ET) would point to this as "design" and flog it until it cried out "divinely created!" The rest of us can just be content that our sense of moral judgment happens to be coincident with our intelligence. Primates (and even lower mammals like my dogs) know exactly when they are breaking the rules yet you wouldn't say they have a "soul" would you?
Displace the source of our inner moral judgment off onto some invisible, omniscient super-being and you do ALL of us a huge disservice. I take it as an insult personally whenever I hear a theist (like RZ) use the stupid straw man argument that us atheists are ok with "evil" because we don't believe in it. Recess is over kids, let's get back to class!
"Evil" is entirely subjective to begin with. You can't "believe" in evil any more than you can "believe" in lousy weather. The entire spectrum of morality is constantly in motion and hard to pin down for even a nanosecond. Why is that? Because the driver of morality, intelligence, is constantly going up (or down). And don't get me wrong, smart people can do very bad things (usually in self-interest).
The challenge for the Christian is to recalibrate their innate moral "compass" to that of Jesus. This is, in practice, totally impossible for the average human in the modern setting. But that doesn't mean we should give up on the effort!
Ravi Z is a fraud. Besides what you stated already....how so?
I don't believe dogs have souls? Actually, I do. "Soul" has many definitions and it is used also with creatures and animals in the Bible. Are they similar to human souls? Probably not. But soul is similar in definition to spirit. And spirit is defined partly as "life" "breath" and "mind." These are things that a dog does possess.
I agree that it is impossible to live up to the moral compass of Jesus perfectly. Thankfully, in this life, God does not require me to.
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Supreme Being
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| Thanks ET for pointing out reason #509,872 why Kirk is not a Christian:
Jesus gives us commandments, but God does not "require" us to obey them.
Then what in Sam Hail are they there for? Friendly advice? A little nudge to help us be better in case we need it? Perhaps God the Father and God the Son need to conference and work out who's really in charge around here. Perhaps a brown-bag working lunch. Just an idea.
RZ is a fraud because he famously couches his apologetics in "reason" and "logic" yet refuses to obey the rules of either. He's a sham. A snake-oil salesman. A carney for the traveling freak-show that is modern evangelism. Anybody with a modicum of training in logic will see right through the stock arguments he has recycled ad nauseum to build his publishing and speaking empires.
So why is he such a huge success? He pushes hope to people who need it most - the faith-blinded dreamers who desperately need to be reassured (repeatedly and often) that their lives are not being lived in vain and that something - anything - is waiting on the other side. Also, RZ - pardon the pun - preaches to the choir.
Why is Emeril LaGasse a household name? Because he is a fat, unhealthy person who cooks food that fat, unhealthy people like to eat.
No one ever got rich or famous telling people what they didn't want to hear (except maybe the Amazing Randi and his slightly-less-obscure proteges Penn & Teller.)
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Supreme Being
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| Krispy Kirk (10/9/2009)
Thanks ET for pointing out reason #509,872 why Kirk is not a Christian:
Jesus gives us commandments, but God does not "require" us to obey them.
Then what in Sam Hail are they there for? Friendly advice? A little nudge to help us be better in case we need it? Perhaps God the Father and God the Son need to conference and work out who's really in charge around here. Perhaps a brown-bag working lunch. Just an idea.
RZ is a fraud because he famously couches his apologetics in "reason" and "logic" yet refuses to obey the rules of either. He's a sham. A snake-oil salesman. A carney for the traveling freak-show that is modern evangelism. Anybody with a modicum of training in logic will see right through the stock arguments he has recycled ad nauseum to build his publishing and speaking empires.
So why is he such a huge success? He pushes hope to people who need it most - the faith-blinded dreamers who desperately need to be reassured (repeatedly and often) that their lives are not being lived in vain and that something - anything - is waiting on the other side. Also, RZ - pardon the pun - preaches to the choir.
Why is Emeril LaGasse a household name? Because he is a fat, unhealthy person who cooks food that fat, unhealthy people like to eat.
No one ever got rich or famous telling people what they didn't want to hear (except maybe the Amazing Randi and his slightly-less-obscure proteges Penn & Teller.)
Come on KK. You know what it means. No one can live a perfectly righteous life. Did you catch the PERFECT part? The Bible does call for us to live a righteous and moral life, but as long as we still reside in our sinful flesh, it's part of our fallen human nature not to do it perfectly. But, I think you knew that already.
I guess you didn't care for Ravi's book then?
Did you catch PBS's latest Nova special? It's a 2 hour movie showing Charles Darwin's life's struggle with religion, his wife, and his unpopular scientific theories. I taped it, but I haven't watched it yet. I'm pretty sure the "christians" will be made to look like whack jobs, which should make you somewhat happy.
I know Amazing Randi is an atheist, but I really like that guy.
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| You missed my point for a chance to spread some grace. Nice job.
Here's the deal: Jesus (repeatedly) said that the rich shall not enter heaven. Yet somehow people succumb to currently-in-fashion "prosperity gospel" that teaches the exact opposite. God apparently is ok with wealth provided your sins are washed in the blood of his son first.
Which is it then? Is wealth eternal damnation or a cool perk you earn for following God's "plan"?
THAT'S the cognitive dissonance to which I was relating ET. Got it?
Yes, I watched the new Darwin thing. I found it to be pretty rough on Victorian attitudes in general but not particularly unkind to religion. It deeply saddened me how Darwin's own family/church/community went completely against his wishes and gave him a traditional funeral with rites. People are mean. Being a Christian often has nothing to do with it. Some folks are just born azzholes.
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Supreme Being
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| Krispy Kirk (10/9/2009)
You missed my point for a chance to spread some grace. Nice job.
Here's the deal: Jesus (repeatedly) said that the rich shall not enter heaven. Yet somehow people succumb to currently-in-fashion "prosperity gospel" that teaches the exact opposite. God apparently is ok with wealth provided your sins are washed in the blood of his son first.
Which is it then? Is wealth eternal damnation or a cool perk you earn for following God's "plan"?
THAT'S the cognitive dissonance to which I was relating ET. Got it?
Yes, I watched the new Darwin thing. I found it to be pretty rough on Victorian attitudes in general but not particularly unkind to religion. It deeply saddened me how Darwin's own family/church/community went completely against his wishes and gave him a traditional funeral with rites. People are mean. Being a Christian often has nothing to do with it. Some folks are just born azzholes.
I'm not sure what you are referring to in regards to Jesus stating the rich shall not enter heaven. I'm familiar with his one statement of how it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to be saved. So, the disciples asked, Who then can be saved? Then Jesus said, With God, anything is possible. I'm aware of many verses in the Old and New testaments that states that riches can be "deceitful" and there are plenty of warnings not to put your trust in money. It is a fact that most of the rich tend to believe they don't need God and they begin to believe that money is the most important thing in life. But, Abraham was extremely wealthy, as was Job, who lost it all, but then got it back even more than his former riches. Yet they were "saved."
The "prosperity gospel" is totally unbiblical. When these false teachers claim that we should all increase in wealth, and when they claim our lives will be easier if we come to Christ and give money to their ministry, this is total baloney. After the Apostle Paul was saved and started "living for Christ" what did it get him? His reward for following Christ was being thrown in prison many times, getting the 39 lashes about 5 times, stoned almost to death once, he went hungry and thirsty often, he experienced being in a shipwreck, and had all sorts of enemies spreading lies about him, etc. Eventually, he was beheaded under Nero. But, this doesn't mean that God won't or couldn't bless and give a relatively easy or rich life for many of His followers. But it is not a promise of God that all will be well with us just by giving so much money to ministries or doing "good works." There is a verse somewhere that states that a believer should be content in whatever situation he or she may find him or herself in. Paul said he has learned the secret of being content, both in times of need, and in times of plenty. In a nutshell, if we are rich or poor, if we believe and sincerely trust in God, no matter what our financial situation, then we are on the right track.
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Supreme Being
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| And now for a commercial break:
http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/Home_Page.html
hi. |
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Supreme Being
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| Just in case no one checked it out yet......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
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